View Full Version : PPI or Franking
Hi,
Is any one here still using Franking machines or have you all gone over to PPi.
Just wondered about the benefits of each.
Have had a look at both as long over due and to me franking seemd to be more for us, but interested in your usage and recommendations.
Ta in advance
Neil
We had the same issue a couple of years ago and went for PPI. I found the franking people a bit like double glazing salesmen and when I checked out a few of their websites, there were functions such as what to do to order supplies, what to do when the phoneline was down etc etc which all sounded to me like franking needed a bit of admin to keep it going. We use the PPI average weight system and have no regrets at all. Using the Royal Mail system we print a load of PPI labels off in advance with our return address at the bottom of each and stick them on the parcels as and when we send them - you don't need to print them as you need them like Smartstamp. Then all you have to do is the online account bit each day and you're done. We found the PPI system a lot cheaper than franking. Beware, the franking people told me PPI takes longer to be delivered by Royal Mail because it is not dated on the 'stamp' and therefore First Class is as slow as non-PPI Second Class. I spoke to Royal Mail about this and that is total rubbish. This has been proved in our nearly 2 years worth of experience, our parcels take no less time than before.
Hi,
I've not used franking but do use PPI - as KayJay says it is really easy and I know it is fast from the various responses from customers.
Gill
Silk Lingerie (http://www.ever-so-sexy.com)
Mar Egeu Bikinis in stock at www.bikinisandswimsuits.co.uk (http://www.bikinisandswimsuits.co.uk)
mikepayn
08-04-2010, 15:35
We use franking as it suits our needs best. It is quick, no probs with phone line etc, easy to update and maintain, gives you control over your postings ie we can still drop off urgent special orders for customers, and maintain our rapid delivery service.
PPi not really for us as our orders vary in size from large letter to 2Kg parcel (over 2Kg by carrier) plus we don't meet the mimimum PPi requirements since many of our customers either collect from us or collect from bulk shipping centres (we supply lots of school groups).
Franking is cheaper especially since the new prices came in on April 6th. Just shop around for your supplies, don't buy from the Franking machine people they charge up to 50% more for the same thing.
I forgot to say, we split our post into categories. We average Large Letters, have another average for Packets and any parcels over 2kg go via courier. For next day items we use a combination of Special Delivery or courier, depending on the weight. I'm probably wrong in my assumption, but I presume you will have lots of Large Letter type things to post with your seeds. It's worth looking at what a typical day consists of and comparing the two options, PPI or franking. If you like, PM me and I'll send over our postage costs for you to work out the PPI side.
I was uder the impression that PPI and franking prices are the same.
Amazingly we are still dropping at the local post office, he was threatened with closure when we first started, so we decided that we had to support him, now he dreads our faces.
mikepayn
08-04-2010, 20:41
I was uder the impression that PPI and franking prices are the same.
Amazingly we are still dropping at the local post office, he was threatened with closure when we first started, so we decided that we had to support him, now he dreads our faces.
Hi Neil,
Quote from Royal Mail re prices: "PPI is a convenient way to access the most appropriate contract service. There are numerous products available and prices will depend on the service used and the level of accreditation achieved". (http://www.royalmail.com/portal/rm/content1?catId=400043&mediaId=72400725) Looking at the volume bands we are better off franking.
We support our local Post Office too along with several other small businesses in the village, they only used to open mornings 09:30 - 12:30. Now they have to open all day including ½ day Saturday :)
Mike,
Can you point me in the direction of these banded prices please.
What do you do with the parcels when ready to go - have them picked up by RM? Its £500 a year for this, and i consider that good value.
What worries me with PPI is the end of day paperwork, i just know its going to be left to me and the staff will just clear off home, is there any paperwork needed for Franking?
The larger parcels go by courier so its mainly large letters and 1st class Packets.
Mike,
What do you do with the parcels when ready to go - have them picked up by RM? Its £500 a year for this, and i consider that good value.
What worries me with PPI is the end of day paperwork, i just know its going to be left to me and the staff will just clear off home,
I can't speak for franking as we have never tried it, but with the PPI we use the average weight system, so we go online to Royal Mail and input the total number of Packets & Large Letters, and the average weight for each category, plus the number of Special Deliveries and International parcels and that's it. Print it off and attach to one of the post sacks. It takes about 5-10 minutes. We take note of how many parcels we have packed for the day (we use the order numbers on a sheet and just count them at the end) so when you are all done, you just need to total weight and divide it by the number of items. The thing that may take you longer is that you have to fill out your own Special Delivery book that they would normally do at the post office.
We did the same, we supported our local village post office whilst they were under threat but after a while they hid under the counter when they heard us approach! They were really great and we could not have kept our business going at the start without them. Once they were safe, we switched to PPI which has saved us thousands of pounds a year.
We have RM collect from us every day. If you meet certain requirements, they will come and collect for free.
mikepayn
09-04-2010, 08:54
Mike,
Can you point me in the direction of these banded prices please.
What do you do with the parcels when ready to go - have them picked up by RM? Its £500 a year for this, and i consider that good value.
What worries me with PPI is the end of day paperwork, i just know its going to be left to me and the staff will just clear off home, is there any paperwork needed for Franking?
The larger parcels go by courier so its mainly large letters and 1st class Packets.
Hi Neil,
We buy our supplies from http://frankingsupplies.com/index.php?route=common/home
We got a supply of RM post sacks and at the end of the day either drop the full ones off at the local PO with the Certificate of Posting (COP) which they give back signed the next day. Or, at busy times, take it straight to our local sorting office and they sign the COP without checking. I use a Dymo label maker and, when I print the Invoice, cut and paste the delivery address into the label maker and onto a COP template (I can send you this if you want). The COP is only in case of claims against RM but, to be honest, for the very few lost ones we have I rarely bother to claim - it's too much hassle! That is the only paperwork. The Franking machine company send a monthly invoice for the rental and the amount of postage you have used - you are given a credit allowance so you just charge your machine every so often by phone line, stick a few hundred quid on it, and when it's used up re-charge.
Works for us.
We use PPI, have done for about 18 months and its been a godsend, when you first get started you get an account manager who looks after you for first couple of months,
and ordering supplies - ties and such is easy
Agree about the post office comments above but it was them in the end who said i should do PPI because all my parcels were causing a health and safety risk waiting to be collected every day
i think its £15,000 a year spend for free collection
When we looked into franking machines they required quite a hefty deposit and always wanted us to keep several hundred pounds in a float. They don't tell you that until after you have agreed to the free trial though so be warned!
When we looked into franking machines they required quite a hefty deposit and always wanted us to keep several hundred pounds in a float. They don't tell you that until after you have agreed to the free trial though so be warned!
Can send that a day sometimes so not worried about that.
Just out of interest what does it cost to send a large letter about 70g on ppi?
Currently have one company dropshipping me 225 large letters size packets a week. If i bring that in house i can save a small fortune, but need to be organised for that.
Most of my suppliers are using franking which is why i believe there is still something in it.
Yup we can now too but didn't when we looked into it originally. Just be aware that they can do that and check it out before you sign up - forewarned is forearmed and all that. I just remember it being quite a big initial outlay but was more annoyed that they had hidden the charges in the small print.
Now we mainly use courier. I really don't know our current PPI rates sorry!
mikepayn
09-04-2010, 11:18
When we looked into franking machines they required quite a hefty deposit and always wanted us to keep several hundred pounds in a float. They don't tell you that until after you have agreed to the free trial though so be warned!
We paid Pitney Bowes no deposit and settle our account (fees + postage) monthly like any other account, and often late too, with no hassle - Oh that is apart from a cheerful girl phoning every so often to ask if we need any franking supplies !
We paid Pitney Bowes no deposit and settle our account (fees + postage) monthly like any other account, and often late too, with no hassle - Oh that is apart from a cheerful girl phoning every so often to ask if we need any franking supplies !
Aha in that case it seems we just struck unlucky.
Just out of interest what does it cost to send a large letter about 70g on ppi?
We use PPI and daily collections, and was the best thing we ever did regarding postage. No more fevered rush to get everything ready and then rushing down to the local sorting office, and it only costs £9 per week.
Our current costs for a 70g large letter are:
47p First Class (£1.21 Recorded)
37p Second Class (£1.11 Recorded)
Laura@FYP
09-04-2010, 18:25
We use PPI here too- love it and wouldnt change it for anything at the moment.
Couldnt be simpler, just count up, bag, and input into the RM site. Print off, label bags and job done ;)
little-linguist
09-04-2010, 18:40
We also use PPI (or courier for heavy / valuable orders). Very easy to use, you just get a bill at the end of the month for what you've sent.
Just to add on this, i use Packing Partner to print off my orders,
i have a template set up with customer details and PPI stamp so i just place this on the parcel once packed with no need for sticking on PPI labels.
little-linguist
10-04-2010, 15:52
Just to add on this, i use Packing Partner to print off my orders,
i have a template set up with customer details and PPI stamp so i just place this on the parcel once packed with no need for sticking on PPI labels.
I'd be interested to learn more about Packing Partner. Does it integrate with Bluepark?
Hi
Yes i contacted Andrew from Packing Partner and he set it up for me, its been really handy, just click the boxes for the orders you want to process and it prints them all off at once, great time saver for me.
I have the invoice edition but you can just get the one that just does labels
Hope this helps
We have it too and it is brilliant - highly recommended.
Laura@FYP
10-04-2010, 20:23
Hmm we had planned to using Integrated labels with the new BP site, and was just planning on designing the invoice/despatch note to print on a standard integrated label- but now Im curious as to what Packing Partner offers that would be different or a better solution that just doing it that way?
Sorry i dont know about intergrated labels but PP is just one click more or less and all orders are printed off in one go, they also have add ons to mark as despatched and so on.
Think you can try free, once template is set up your away, and you can do several templates promoting offers or for seasonal - whatever, so just use whichever
Hi
Thanks for all the replies, applied for ppi today, so will see how we get on.
One thing i forgot to ask was that can we put all the office mail through this as well, invoices, statements, etc.
Take it that would mean 3 sections for letters, large letters and packets.
Hi Neil,
you can put any type of Royal Mail Service that you are signed up for and enter the end of day totals on line via OBA, we go one further and use Royal Mail Despatch Express (yes with an a not i), this links with Linn Works and prints the RM labels with addresses and enters them on the appropriate service, at the end of the day you just enter the total weight for each averaged service and it prints a manifest and sends the info to OBA for billing, you can use it for all RM services including Recorded and Special Delivery WITHOUT form filling.
It saved us at least one person in Novemeber/December, by the way, my tomatoes are all growing well and the Melons and Cucumbers will go in the growbags in the greenhouse this weekend!! can't wait to taste the fruit from the seeds you sent me.
Finally got PPI up and running, collections start this next week hopefully.
We have entered the packets this week as one whole lot in the end of day totals, or can you break it down into lighter packets and heavier packets and is there a price benefit to this.
I am getting the staff to spend one day next week booking each parcel weight down on paper so that I can just go through figures, but wondered how you did it.
We sort into each weight bracket - so weigh them first then put them into piles by weight. Then we break those down into first and second class, recorded and so on. Possibly not the quickest way of doing it, although now we know usually which weight band each one falls into just by knowing what is inside.
And do you find its cheaper this way than throwing it all under one total, or does the final price work out about the same?
How you described it was the way the staff were going to try next week.
Thanks
Yes much cheaper because most of ours are under <100gms but it just takes one bigger package of wristbands to completely change the average.
Also it depends as well how many you send recorded/special delivery because again that can skew the totals significantly.
Plushpaws
29-04-2010, 08:27
Hi Neil,
My understanding of Packetpost is that it is your average weight of each type/class of mail. Therefore, you are not supposed to simply see how many of each weight band you have. The Royal Mail do periodically check your weights and their Revenue Protection team will soon let you know and fine you for 'playing' the system.
If you have 10 items (1st Class Packet) at 235g and 1 (1st Class Packet) at 720g, then your average is 279g, and you pay the 279g rate for all the items.
Hi Neil,
My understanding of Packetpost is that it is your average weight of each type/class of mail. Therefore, you are not supposed to simply see how many of each weight band you have. The Royal Mail do periodically check your weights and their Revenue Protection team will soon let you know and fine you for 'playing' the system.
If you have 10 items (1st Class Packet) at 235g and 1 (1st Class Packet) at 720g, then your average is 279g, and you pay the 279g rate for all the items.
Not strictly true as you can send the 10 items on daily average and the 1 item at 720g on packet/LL standard tariff, this keeps the heavy one from upping your average on the majority, perfectly allowable and keeps your average under the 250gr breakpoint.
If you don't use Royal Mail Despatch Express you can keep a running total of packages/weight and running average daily weight on an Excel spreadsheet, to warn you when you're in danger of putting the whole days sendings into another higher price band, we use RMDE and simply weigh the bags and deduct the weight for the sack, we never put the average over 500gr, there is nothing to stop you sending a couple of heavier items by standard tariff, rather than daily average.
Once you get used to it you can play the system with daily average sendings by 1st and 2nd (seperate average) standard tariff packet/LL/letter to keep your cost at the lowest possible, Royal Mail gives you nothing for free, it's up to you to minimise the cost per package.
When we set up, we spent time checking for heavier parcels and calculating how much we would save by removing the heavy items and sending them standard tariff. In the end, we found it was not a great deal of money and the time spent noting down the weights, completing a spreadsheet, seeing what the overall saving was and then recording stuff accordingly was not worth the bother. Overall, we found that some days we lost out, some we gained so now we split our post into Packets, Large Letter, Recorded, Special Delivery and Format Sort International and leave it at that.
...so now we split our post into Packets, Large Letter, Recorded, Special Delivery and Format Sort International and leave it at that.
Exactly what we do - just sort into these categories, each in a separate mail sack (or groups of mail sacks per category), then weigh the sacks and divide by the number of parcels to get an average parcel weight. As you say, it's win some/lose some, but generally there's not much in it.
When we first started using PPI we were told by RM, while they were training us on-site, that we should basically throw all the parcels irrelevant of weight (as long as under 2Kg) into sacks, then weigh all the filled sacks to get a combined figure, this is then divided by the number of parcels to give you an average weight. We always came to the same per parcel cost, which I think was £2.34 so must have stayed within the same average weight band.
We now use the RM Tracked via Despatch Express which we really like, no lost parcels anymore!, so not sure if the rules have changed, I suspect not :eek:
little-linguist
30-04-2010, 07:12
I think that for Packetpost whether you sort packets and large letters is up to you (well that's what we were told and what we do!). You don't have to (but obviously then have to pay packet rate for all parcels). Most of what we post out is a packet with just the odd large letter so unless there is an obviously large amount of large letters on a particular day, we bung them all in together. The large letter items are generally lighter so bring the average weight down a bit but I reckon that we pay about the same overall so save time with the sorting etc.
Exactly what we do - just sort into these categories, each in a separate mail sack (or groups of mail sacks per category), then weigh the sacks and divide by the number of parcels to get an average parcel weight. As you say, it's win some/lose some, but generally there's not much in it.
Yep, just worked through some figures and was cheaper to do as one one batch today.
Tracking it for the next week and seeing, but moving to ppi has saved us quite a bit already so not moaning. Not too mention quicker for packing as well.
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