What does the bank do when a 'dodgy card' is authorised?

[pinkypie]

I've just had an overseas order that is over £100 to go to Poland. What happens if someone pays with a dodgy card and the payment is authorised but the transaction is not picked up right away? I have a credit card machine where I process the payments here but what does the bank do with payments. Would they take it back off me at a later date? Or do they cover it having let it go through.

I've been getting a lot of payments where it says 'Not Authorised' lately which is a real pain, people put it through on the site and think they've got away with using a maxed out card - until it comes to me putting the card through. Hence I am getting a bit worried. Obviosuly I need the money this person has just paid and I am pleased to clear the stock but I just get so tetchy as there is no way of claiming that the money back on overseas sales if I get defrauded.

I wondered if anyone had experience of this. Thanks.

[Gillf]

Hi,

I am not sure what you mean by "picked it up right away", but with credit card payments a charge back can be made for several months after the transaction if it subsequently turns out that it was fraudulant. Sorry that's not good news.

Gill

www.ever-so-sexy.com (http://www.ever-so-sexy.com)

[Dave]

Hi,

As Gill says it could be a few months before the chargeback occurs. I am afraid there is very little you can do against chargeback if you are using a manual credit card machine and the liability nearly always lies with us merchants.

I am surprised you are still using a credit card machine and would suggest you consider using a payment service provider such as protx.

The rule is you should only deliver to the registered credit card address where the house number, postcode, security code and 3D secure code all match. This is your best bet against avoiding chargeback.

Using a PSP checks all the above and will give you more confidence that the transaction is ok.

Its easier with uk addresses as you can also check telephone numbers and the electrol register

We dont export but we assume the PSP checks transactions in the same manner it does for UK transactions

[pinkypie]

Yes, I know, I paid £1000 for the machine as one got stolen and I had to replace it - also reluctant to pay £20 a month for what I am getting for £10 at the moment. I have thought about it but it just makes it easier to use the machine. I have to out the CV code in as well so as far as secure goes, it is just that, but it is the threat of a chargeback. If something happens in the UK I can use MCO to get the money off the person if they have had the goods, I cannot do this if the goods go out of the UK, so I am feeling a tad nervous about it.

I stopped using Paypal because they charged ME £7 for accepting a card payment that was 'unauthorised' which they then found in my favour - I never got the £7 back that they took off me though! On principle I will not accept Paypal anymore (plus the fees though!!)

[pinkypie]

That being said I have done 100's of transaction on my machine and it has been just fine and no chargebacks, I just feel better using it at the moment I suppose. I just feel uneasy with a big purchase going overseas and not being able to do anything if it is fraudulent.

PS. Do you want to tell me what you think of my new homepage :) I do not have anyone else to ask really.

[Dave]

How do you put the credit details through the machine? I thought Bluepark did not store the credit card details and you have to use a PSP?

I also understood if you dont use a PSP your systems must be PCI compliant else you may be fined.

Like your new homepage, very good. Just one thing I tried to click on the Amex logo as suggested and it did not do anything.

[pinkypie]

Yes, I've paid for the Thawte security thingy so I can store the card details on the Bluepark system, I put the card details in manually, card, dates. security number, etc... after the order has been processed they get deleted off the server.

I never noticed that Amex logo saying 'Click Here' before, will check that out as that is the logo from the Barclays Site so it should work. It is all compliant, not had any problems with Barclays as they know how I process the cards, they have not told me I should be doing it any other way, they help me if my machine has a problem too.

I've one of the newer chip & pin handheld machines but I can use it for Internet Transactions by entering the card details manually, maybe that is why. I've weighed up the costs but this way is cheaper for me at the moment to do it this way. However, we have been getting much busier and are having more go overseas, which is the bit that is worrying me really. While the pound has been plummetting it means I've got a bigger overseas customer base. I think what initially put me off is paying £20 a month regardless whereas now I do not pay a minimum, no transactions then no fees to pay. And every penny counts at the moment.

I've looked at Barclays as they will not charge me set up or minimum transactions each month but I want to charge when the goods are ready for dispatch and as this can sometimes be 2 weeks then it is too late to charge the card and the details are taken off their systems.

I suppose I should have a look at protx now I am getting much busier though. Something to do for this week. I've a huge sale coming up as I've got a lot to clear and I need to clear some room so I guess I have to cut my losses, so maybe now is the right time. I am having real trouble getting a reception on the machine and I have to hold it out the window.... LOL!! I sometimes wonder just how much I paid for that damn machine!! Especially when it is 0 degrees and I've got to stand outside to get a connection to the servers. Ho hum!!

I had the same system on my other e-commerce shop as well, set up to process payments manually.

[Dave]

If you do change to using a PSP it may be worth shopping around for your merchant account. We used to be with Barclaycard Merchant Services but joined the federation of small business (fsb) so we could move to streamline and take advantage of the specially agreeded rates for fsb members.

It costs something like approx 125 per annum to join the fsb. Can't remember the rates we are paying to streamline but if you are interested then let me know and I will look them up. At least it will give you something to compare against Barclays

[powertoolworld]

When accepting Amex you have no protection at all against chargebacks!!
We will not accept Amex at all due to the fact they have no security in place to protect the retailer aswell as the charges are double (one charge from Amex and another from your card clearing company).

We will only ship abroad if the card is fully 3D secure (Mastercard & Visa) with Protx.

If the buyer uses Meastro or Visa Debit then you cannot get a chargeback so you have no worries.

[petad]

When accepting Amex you have no protection at all against chargebacks!!
We will not accept Amex at all due to the fact they have no security in place to protect the retailer aswell as the charges are double (one charge from Amex and another from your card clearing company).
Thanks Chris - didn't know that. Amex is no longer accepted at Fat Banana Feet!

[Dave]

This is why we don't use Amex. We probably loose some business because of this. Some people call to complain and then they either use another card :) or go elsewhere :(

[pinkypie]

To be honest we have had 2 Amex transactions in 3 years, hardly anyone uses it but I have someone who I supply for a boutique in Oz and she pays by Amex, quite a lot of business goes there so for now I am going to accept it still

I have a good rate with Barlcays to be honest, I am a member of the Market Traders Federation and so got a preferential rate via them, no set up fees, no minimum monthly payments etc... and a lower rate on my card acceptance fees. I do have a Merchant acount set up for Internet Transactions but I have never used it so I guess it looks like I'll use that. I do not get any annual fees for the accounts at all either.

Oh, also I do not accept Paypal but rather than lose a customer if I do not take their card (I've only had one transaction where the card could not be used) I do send a Paypal invoice to them as a last resort and then I've still got the payment.

It is £79 for annual membership to the NMTF but if I get my insurances through them I save £25 off that for each policy. I used to get my van insurance through them, but you get £5 million Public Liability plus VAT Investigation help too so I am happy with that side of things and the Merchant Account I have.

While on this subject, do I pay Protx their £20 fee and THEN do I pay a card acceptance fee to Barclays? How does this work with Protx, I've looked at the site last night, maybe I was tired but it confused me. I want to authroise the payments later but some within 1 day and others up to 14 days later. So would Authrotise and Authenticate be the best option for me? If I was to have someone come to get something can I send the credit card payment via the screen?

I am on a rate of £9 a month with Vodafone for my airtime and I do not pay anything for processing a card but if I cancel that and start again it is going to go up to around £35 a month as the contracts have all changed. I am on an old contract, it is really hard to choose what is the right thing to do. At the moment all I pay is £9 a month plus the card processing fees. If I move then I'll have to pay £20 to protx and..... what else. Any advice?

[pinkypie]

Oh and do any of you still use Protx to stay on your site, you need the Thwarte thing for that and I already have it. What do you all use? Not Paypal though, not going there again unless for a last resort!!

[Dave]

We use Protx small business service which is £20 plus vat per month and includes 1,000 transactions per quarter (authenticate & authorise would be best for you)

You will then pay your IMA supplier (Barclays) a fee for each transaction. This varies depending on whether its Visa, Mastercard, Commercial Cards, Delta, Maestro etc

For Visa, Mastercard and Commercial Cards we are paying less than 2% of the transaction value and for Delta and Maestro cards its something like 21p per transaction

We use Protx VSP Direct so shoppers are never taken away from the site(s) and this is protected by a Thawte SSL Certificate

We also have Google Checkout as a payment option which is 1.5% of the transaction value plus 15p. If you use Google Adwords and spend a certain amount you can get free card processing.

Finally, unless you pay extra with Protx for a MOTO (mail order/telephone order) account you will not be able to process payments via the protx admin panel. The way we get round this is to process the payment via our website

[pinkypie]

Thanks Dave, I looked at it last night, the site confuses me and it looks so difficult to sort out but am halfway through signing up.

But, what it does not make clear is whether or not there is any minimum term that you are contracted too. I am happy to give it a try to see what works best but also want to know that if it does not work for me that I can cancel it. I emailed them last night so am waiting for an answer.

Also, I have the SSL Security Seal (Thwarte) that is paid for until October, is it better I use this and have customers stay on my own site? Am I right in thinking that you then have to process the payments online yourself? As this is the same as I have now but I put them through a machine.

When someone stays on the Protx screen is it the same as Paypal in that they have the details and do the checks and you log in to see who has paid - but in my case I would click on the payment to authroise it? How does it work exactly? I am going to set up another thread that asks this as well. Thanks.

[Dave]

New post started by Lingerie Heaven on this subject here
http://www.bluepark.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=3887#post3887

[pinkypie]

Thanks Dave.