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Thread: total https sites

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gillf View Post
    Shopify also do it.
    You have to be on their top package, shopify plus, and it's not going to be under £100pm as they don't even advertise the price. There is a hack using the other lower packages but it is a hack and I don't think Google will look favourable at it.

    Ian

  2. #22
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    One big issue I can see, is that to get full https you have to be a company... so where does that leave partnerships and sole traders? (which make up a huge percentage of businesses in the UK)

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheesemouse View Post
    One big issue I can see, is that to get full https you have to be a company... so where does that leave partnerships and sole traders? (which make up a huge percentage of businesses in the UK)
    Sorry but I think that's wrong. If you have SSL already in the checkout as I understand it's exactly the same certificate and BP would make the changes so the whole site is using HTTPS.

    The standard SSL should work fine and it's the EV with green bar I believe is for limited companies.

    Anyway don't think full SSL is on BPs radar
    Last edited by Dave; 31-01-2016 at 12:23.
    Regards,

    Dave

  4. #24
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    Yes Dave, you are right about EV being for limited companies. Any online business can have an ssl cert. But I do hope you are wrong about the full site SSL not being on BPs radar. Our success is BP's success - if we fail then that damages BP as well and I am more and more convinced that Google are going to force this through - the longer BP take to react the more damage it will do to all of us.
    Gill

  5. #25
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    I'm personally in the same camp I was in when I wrote the following blog article:

    http://www.bluepark.co.uk/blog/googl...-to-https.html

    There's no security issue here as we're talking about publicly available product pages etc. and not data that needs to be encrypted.

    There is a performance consideration for our servers, so this is not a minor change in any respect.

    There has been no "mainstream" adoption of this strategy. Amazon doesn't use HTTPS, eBay doesn't use HTTPS, John Lewis doesn't use HTTPS, to name just a few top retailers.

    When everyone else is doing it, there will be an argument to consider it, but I think it's still too early for this. I believe that, if your site was full HTTPS right now, you would be very disappointed with the SEO impact it has.
    Developer :: Bluepark Solutions

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    I'm personally in the same camp I was in when I wrote the following blog article:

    http://www.bluepark.co.uk/blog/googl...-to-https.html

    There's no security issue here as we're talking about publicly available product pages etc. and not data that needs to be encrypted.

    There is a performance consideration for our servers, so this is not a minor change in any respect.

    There has been no "mainstream" adoption of this strategy. Amazon doesn't use HTTPS, eBay doesn't use HTTPS, John Lewis doesn't use HTTPS, to name just a few top retailers.

    When everyone else is doing it, there will be an argument to consider it, but I think it's still too early for this. I believe that, if your site was full HTTPS right now, you would be very disappointed with the SEO impact it has.
    Thanks for joining the discussion.
    But from what you are saying it seems heads we lose and tails we still lose as although the big guys are not yet adopting there is a definite move among the sme's and those that have adopted https are enjoying higher ranking.
    I really think this is the thin end of the wedge. Google have added whole site https as a best practise to their webmaster guidelines and are threatening to "shame" any site not doing it with a red x security warning. Very much holding a gun to our heads and the average online shopper is not going to understand that what Google are forcing through is unnecessary.
    The big guys are not so threatened because no one is going to be put off by the red x if it showed on them and they have the marketing budgets that inevitably get them high in the rankings. It's is us small and medium size retailers as usual that will be hit the hardest by Google megalomania. And as we can't win a battle against Google I believe the recommended strategy has to be play the game by their rules and pray for the day when some other company knocks them off their number one perch.
    Gill

  7. #27
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    I would like to see full HTTPS but, for me it's not about Google, it's about marketing.

    A number of our competitors now have full HTTPS and are making a point of the security benefits - most users are now programmed to understand a padlock and green area in the corner is a good thing so if our competitors are successful in promoting that full HTTPS is the right thing for customers in our industry then we will lose custom because of this.

    I fully understand there will be some additional load on the servers (it's not a huge difference these days though) plus, there will be a fair bit of additional coding required to deal with things like externally hosted images (if these aren't https, then customers will get a mixed security warning which can be off putting so Bluepark might need to build a local, HTTPS proxy for those types of resources).

    We would also be happy to pay a premium for this feature so any additional server load could be covered with an addon we pay for monthly for the full HTTPS.

  8. #28
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    That depends on the cost of the premium. If it becomes the norm for Google then why should we pay extra? I wouldn't be happy paying extra for that.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheesemouse View Post
    That depends on the cost of the premium. If it becomes the norm for Google then why should we pay extra? I wouldn't be happy paying extra for that.
    I think Greg means it could be an optional add-on feature so if you want full https you pay an additional fee but if you don't then you don't.

  10. #30
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    I strongly believe it will cost more in lost business not to be fully https, for some of us it probably is already costing, so i would pay extra.
    Gill

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gillf View Post
    I strongly believe it will cost more in lost business not to be fully https, for some of us it probably is already costing, so i would pay extra.
    As soon as Chrome & Mozilla start flagging up sites which are non secure it will cause problems that's for sure.
    Regards,

    Dave

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheesemouse View Post
    That depends on the cost of the premium. If it becomes the norm for Google then why should we pay extra? I wouldn't be happy paying extra for that.
    I agree with Cheesemouse, if a full https site becomes a norm with Google, or is necessary to avoid being shamed by Chrome or Firefox, this is just another requirement of doing business on the internet. As such, it should not be an additional cost.

    If Google persists with this approach, and I do believe they will, then any extra cost presents the small shop owner with a double-whammy. That is, if the extra charge is unaffordable, rankings could drop and revenue may drop until such a stage that operating the store is financially unviable.

    I would appreciate it if no one chips in with “…but surely an extra £XX a month is worth it.” Of course it is, if you can afford it. But many of us – and I include myself here – would find even the smallest charge very hard to bear. Let alone justify if caused solely by Google flexing its PR muscles in an attempt to become the ‘saviour’ of the internet.

    In relation to costs, I think there’s sometimes a disconnect between the size and turnover of shops that operate on the Bluepark platform and post in this forum. Personally, I can only read in awe about shops that need an API to handle stock, dispatch, etc. Or of those that have a turnover in the hundreds of thousands. In both of these cases, all I can say is… I should be so lucky!

    In the interests of transparency, in my case an extra tenner a month would hurt.

    Again, I would appreciate no one chipping in with… “Well you shouldn’t be in business then.” Which begs the question, if a tenner’s too much, why do I continue to support my business? Because I enjoy doing it; it gives me purpose, keeps me out of trouble and at my age there is probably nothing else I could do.

    Finally, remember the move (it seems so long ago now) to mobile friendly sights instigated, in the main, by Google. Well I see this as the same thing; full https sites should not become a chargeable extra available only to those who can afford it.

    Geoff

    MSE Books – a great deal for collectors

  13. #33
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    Well said Geoff

    People need to remember that 95% of businesses in the UK are not companies ie they are sole traders and partnerships, and to the majority of these even a small charge like a tenner a month can hurt.

  14. #34
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    One of my main competitors has sky rocketed in the rankings the last few months and in that time have swapped to https, they have been doing other seo so not saying it is down to the change but it certainly has not had a negative effect on them.

    Speed is one of my most important factors so I just did a speed test with the following results

    Our site
    1.49s 781KB
    Competitor
    1.58s 1.3MB

    Very close times with their site being quite a bit larger so I am guessing if theirs was the same as ours they would be quicker? I am assuming this is down to their server resources?

    Would I be right in saying that to keep our sites speed when going to https we would need more server space?

  15. #35
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    I'm sorry to again voice what will be an unpopular opinion, but I believe the benefits of HTTPS are being overestimated. Looking at a competitor's ranking and assuming it's due to HTTPS is ignoring a vast number of other (far more likely) factors.

    Serving websites over HTTPS costs more in CPU processing time as everything has to be encrypted and decrypted (including massive product images - an exercise which is essentially pointless).

    We have to consider the impact on our hosting platform, which is balanced for the sites we're hosting right now. If we made this change overnight and everyone's performance suffered, this would be an extremely unpopular move and would result in angry complaints on these forums.

    As many posters in this thread have noted, this will become necessary "if" various factors come into play, such as Google marking sites as insecure, or browsers doing so. As I said before, we're not there yet. We'll keep an eye on this issue, we'll keep an open mind, but this is definitely not the kind of change you make overnight, on the spur of the moment, without a great deal of consideration and planning involved.
    Developer :: Bluepark Solutions

  16. #36
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    Also, worth a read - some existing analysis:

    http://blog.searchmetrics.com/us/201...gher-rankings/
    Developer :: Bluepark Solutions

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    Also, worth a read - some existing analysis:

    http://blog.searchmetrics.com/us/201...gher-rankings/
    Thanks for posting that link but I would point out that it is a 2014 article so the data may not be that up to date. It is true that we have seen little movement until recently but there is now a definite movement among small to medium size sites to go https.. And also recently Google have revised their webmaster guidelines and have now included:

    In the end until something changes Google rules the internet and makes the rules. We ignore this at our peril so I am glad this situation is being watched by BP and propose we should all keep a careful eye on our competition to monitor how and when they move to https and feed this back.
    Gill

  18. #38
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    I have been watching this thread with great interest and if I am being totally selfish, I would personally side with Rich's argument with the view that the time could be better spent upgrading the platform to make the onsite experience better (if your seeing this Rich, updates to bundles, checkout and variants )

    We used to have a subscription to Moz and they publish an annual list of ranking factors. I have placed the link below, just do a search and find for https but their data for 2015 showed:

    Page-Level Keyword Agnostic Features

    These elements describe non-keyword-usage, non-link-metrics features of individual pages (such as length of the page, load speed, etc.).
    While page length, international targeting, and total number of links all show moderate association with Google rankings, we found that using HTTPS has a very low positive correlation. This could indicate it’s the “tie-breaker” Google claims. Negative associated factors include server response time and the total length of the URL.
    https://moz.com/search-ranking-factors/correlations#2
    Shaun

    Loxta Hardware
    www.loxta.co.uk

  19. #39
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    i think the phrase "tie breaker" is key.
    Gill

  20. #40
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    It is a tie breaker behind 10 other more important factors though for just page level keywords.

    I am not knocking that this is a factor, just specifically for us there are other items that we would like to see ahead of this to help us convert the traffic we get and also make the site better for our customers.

    The thing that concerns me from that report is that urls having hypens and urls that are too long have a bigger negative associated factor....back to the drawing board on my url structures .
    Shaun

    Loxta Hardware
    www.loxta.co.uk

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